Again, more Tumblr bullshittery so I’m replying like this. :)
P.S. You can block these because I tag them all “build theory” and I don’t want people to get annoyed :I
I don’t often reblog. But someone was very rude to you when they had little to no idea of what they were talking about. Clearly they weren’t watching TheOddOne jungle Hecarim, and seeing what he was capable of with a Jax top vs. Fiora (and Jax doesn’t have a lot of CC at level 3-4.) It’s quite a shame when you parade your opinion as fact, don’t you think?
So let’s talk about Hecarim instead of trying to spread our own problems to the internet. I like your build, but I’d make a contention about Spirit Visage… consider Gunblade instead. You got an early Wriggle’s plus Heart of Gold right. Make sure you’re making as much money as any lane. Boots of Swiftness won’t offer a significant advantage in passive, and while it’s good for catching up, if you’re smart, you won’t need it more often than not. Merc Treads are probably best because, as you say, you are an initiator. It’s as necessary as Mercs on Singed in teamfights or split-pushing.
Another variation you might try is an Atmog sort of build, reminiscent of Skarner. I’ve never played Hecarim, only observed, but I’ve seen one use this build and he did rather well:
Trinity Force (Sheen then Phage then Zeal)
Then I saw him spring for an Infinity Edge, which gives me some pause, but… looking into a initiator build, those four items are excellent. Other defensive items could work well: FoN, Frozen Mallet, Frozen Heart, whatever. If they stack HP or movement speed, they’ll work very well.
In the end, you won’t be using just one build all the time. I have four builds for my Singed, and no doubt you’ll be very versatile with your jungle once you get used to our new phantom centaur. I wish you all the best in your journey. :)
First off, dis my frand Tom. Tom is awesome and sticks up for me. Also we sometimes have differences in opinions, and here we will demonstrate how to discuss things we don’t agree on without turning into douchey rageheads.
I’m going to go through and give my thoughts on his item choices one at a time, but also make sure he understands that I read and respect his opinion. Here goes.
I’ve already made several arguments for the use of Spirit Visage so I won’t repeat them, but I will repeat that I urge people to try it out. If you really don’t like it, then don’t use it. I won’t mind one bit.
The only reason I would take Ninja Tabi over Merc’s in a toss up is because I’m a very new jungler and I like the damage reduction in the jungle. That’s all. Otherwise I would let team comp and CC dictate which one of the two to get. I do agree that the movement speed and tiny AD from Boots of Swiftness just aren’t enough to offset the loss of the defensive bonuses.
I’ll definitely try Gunblade though, the active might make initiates even more silly. I’m not sure what the added AP and spellvamp will do, but it’s still worth a shot.
As for an early Heart of Gold, I’d do it if I was planning on building Randuin’s anyways, which would again depend on their team comp. But it’s a very good idea.
And your Skarner build? So good. I do want to warn that Hecarim isn’t Skarner, so it may not be quite as good on him, but at the same time I can’t see any reason it wouldn’t be. For the last two items I would probably grab something like Frozen Heart or Maw of Malmortius, and Bloodthirster for the damage and sustain.
Looks like I have some more items to try out!
And look, neither of us resorted to name-calling or insults. I’d say this post was a success.
Since Tumblr won’t let me reblog the full post for some reason.
I don’t like Hecarim level 2 ganking. Unless you have a fairly strong level 2 mate at a lane, it’s pointless. Your deeps at level 2 is so infinitely small, and it makes going back into the jungle to clear successive creeps that much harder without your W. I tend to gank at 4, after taking Q>W>W>E and maxing Q off.
I never get any boots but Swiftness, simply for the fact I run behind them without using my ult while chasing and simply knock them back. I have never built Spirit Visage and I don’t like to, and I go for either Hexdrinker or Sunfire first, depending on what type of damage is present on the enemy team.
And now for some non-constructive criticism: No. Your theories are bad and you should feel bad.
First off, I can totally understand not doing level 2 ganking. I prefer level 3, but can see how a level 2 could be worth your time. I actually haven’t been able to buy my armor pen marks yet, so my attack speed Kog’Maw marks went into this build - which makes my early DPS pretty good! It’s also helpful to a lane who’s being pushed back to their tower because of a counter-pick or a high-damage support. I’d consider a gank successful if you can even scare them off of your turret or make them pop a flash or another long-cooldown skill. After all, League is a tower game, not a kill game.
As far as having trouble clearing the jungle without two levels of your W, I’ve never had a problem with that! He has an insanely fast clear time, and more damage from your Q certainly helps with that.
I also think that a level 4 gank would be pretty similar to a level 3 gank. At that point, why not just wait for 6? With his fear, you’re practically guaranteed a kill as long as your lanemates are paying attention. But really, ganking is about controlling the actions of your opponents. If they think you’re about to jump out at them, they probably won’t push the tower.
I find that I really dislike Boots of Swiftness on Hecarim. He really needs the Tenacity or 10% decreased damage more than he needs a tiny bit more speed. He’s also naturally quick even without runes or boots, in the way Swain is naturally slow even with them. I can usually do what you’ve described here - running behind them and then booting them back - without Boots of Swiftness. At the end of the day, it’s all about personal preference, especially with boot choice.
As far as the Spirit Visage issue, I understand that a lot of people really don’t like this item. And to be fair, I also think it could use a small buff to raise its utility. However, I’m going to stick by what I said here: don’t knock it ‘til you try it. I respect your opinion, but I would respect it more if you’d have tried the item first or given me some numbers. I’ve already told my friend that I would play a few games without it to try it out if he’d play a few games with it, and I extend the invitation to you. I just could not believe how many times the added burst of healing saved my skin.
I really need to try out Sunfire Cape on him. I always find myself with the funds for it only after it’s stopped being worth the money, however. Maybe I can build it between building pieces of Trinity Force, since I need the Sheen pretty early on for the damage.
As for my theories being bad, they obviously weren’t that bad! You didn’t even try to convince me that any more than two items in my build could be better, for one thing. So I got a good laugh out of that. Thanks. :3
Since the last paragraph sorta sounds like he’s trying to justify these ways being used, let me be the first to say that none of these reasons are good enough to justify taking away any minority’s rights. The entire thing is a societal/cultural problem that needs to be addressed.
Just writing out a few ideas I’ve had for a good jungle Hecarim build so I can start doing even better as him. I will for sure change things as I go, but here are my thoughts so far.
The tl;dr is this: Ninja Tabi or Mercury’s Treads Trinity Force Spirit Visage (or another defensive item, like Guardian Angel) Frozen Heart (or Force of Nature) Maw of Malmortius (or Randuin’s Omen) Bloodthirster
Spirit visage isn’t what you want. Hexdrinker/Maw -IS- a great item on him, and lifesteal plus W keeps you healed enough
I completely agree with you - I LOVE Maw on him - but there was literally no AP on their team worth talking about and so I didn’t feel the need to build the MR shield. Instead, I wanted to just survive against a constant assault from Vayne and Yi and force them to focus me. More than once I got double kills at under 200 HP in the middle of them - and came out at half health from all the bonus healing.
I really just needed to stay alive under constant fire, and Spirit Visage, BT, and my W (along with a metric buttload of armor) was enough to do that. :)
dude, don’t build frozen heart and thornmail together
I completely understand that to maximize Thornmail’s damage output, you wouldn’t want to slow down the AD carry’s attacks. However, she did insane amounts of damage and I needed her to slow down to just stay alive. Hecarim’s W is great for sitting in the middle of a battle with slower sustained damage, but he can still be bursted down. Thus, both Frozen Heart and Thornmail were used to basically punish the Vayne and Yi for focusing me first after I ulted onto their frail bodies.
I could have built a different defense item than Thornmail (let’s assume I need Frozen Heart for the mana more than I need Thornmail for the passive.) But what could I buy? Guardian Angel? I rather like GA, but I didn’t need the MR and the revive would have usually landed me a second time in the middle of a losing battle if I had died the first time. I also tended to stay alive after I built Spirit Visage unless the battle went terribly.
What I really should have built is Randuin’s, but I didn’t have enough money to buy it and BT for what was going to be one of the final battles of the game. If I had more gold or time that game, I would have built that instead of Thornmail; but considering the circumstances, I think that what I built was the best option even with the current meta of not building Frozen Heart and Thornmail together.
Still, I could be very mistaken. This sort of game probably won’t happen again, but if it does, I’ll be sure to try something different. Thank you very much for the feedback, and please know that I’m just stating some opinions! I’m honestly curious to hear what else I could have done.
tl;dr: I think you have a very valid point, and I love discussing things like this!
Fun fact I knew this girl from camp who had a British accent but she wasn’t from England and then one day I went to her house and her parents didn’t have a British accent either so I asked her where she got it from because I was really confused and she told me her parents faked it until she was 7 because they wanted a child with a British accent
I found my old FF.net account. It has four fics on it, in scared to click one.
Oh man, I’m actually finishing one I abandoned two and a half years ago. I abandoned it because it was terrible.
…But it’s kinda relaxing to just not care about the quality and type it out as you wish. I left it unfinished by one chapter and on a terrible cliffhanger, so I feel like I owe it to the people who still care (and I assume from the ~100 views a month, there’s a few of them.) I also kinda stopped watching Bleach and that didn’t help. :/
So really, just click and have a laugh at yourself! What series are they for?
I would say that I’ve found beauty in this place. But it isn’t the place that, by itself, is beautiful. It’s the chance meetings, the people who play such small roles in my life, that remind me of how gorgeous this place can be.
I was talking with a friend recently about how games like Skullgirls and Bayonetta bother me quite a bit. One of the things they said was that they “don’t inherently object to sexy women in videogames”.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t either! The thing is, that’s the norm for this media